Join Kristen and Bella as they face what may have been one of history’s first assessment of personality: the zodiac sign.
Today, they cover how the zodiac has changed throughout history and between cultures, find out what the hell a moon sign is, and analyze the cultural craze surrounding astrology – both positive and negative.
Hungry for more astrology? Don’t fret, there’s more where that came from:
- Check out Kristen and Bella’s full horoscope-living challenge mentioned in this podcast
- Read all about Ophiuchus, the hardest-to-pronounce and least-loved zodiac sign.
- Feeling academic? Kristen chronicles the history of astrology here.
Transcription (K – Kristen; B – Bella):
K: Welcome to the Zodiac Podcast where you’ll learn everything about your horoscope.
B: Sounds pretty legit.
K: Hell yeah! I’m Kristen and I’m an Aquarius.
B: I’m Bella and I’m a Libra.
K: So we’re gonna start today with a quick disclaimer that this podcast is going to be focused solely on the Greek and Babylonian zodiac system, so the western zodiac system, there’s also the Chinese zodiac which has all the animals and stuff, and I just wanted to quickly mention the differences between that in case you guys were interested in hearing more about that in a future episode. This Chinese zodiac divides astrological signs by years and is based on the lunar calendar while western astrology is split up by months revolving around the solar calendar. The Chinese zodiac is derived from myths, so as legend has it, all of the species in the world were put into this big rat race by God.
B: *laughter*
K: Right? The first twelve to win were the ones that became zodiac signs.
B: Wow.
K: I’m surprised the ox won.
B: Yeah
K: That’s my year, I’m year of the ox.
B: I’m year of the rat which is interesting because rats kinda freak me out.
*laughter*
K: So the western zodiac signs, those are all based on constellations and how they move throughout the sky during the year because if you don’t know what astrology is, it’s derived from very simply, just watching the stars and just trying to make sense of their position in relation to what’s happening on Earth. So for example, crops, if someone was to see a certain constellation they would know it’s a certain time of the year and what’s typical for that time of the year. It derived very simply from that and because that worked out pretty well, people started thinking that maybe it has some impact on people’s individual lives as well. And the last main difference between the Chinese zodiac and the Western zodiac signs is that they both contain elements- the Chinese zodiac contains five elements while the Western zodiac contains four elements. With China it’s fire, earth, metal, water, and wood while with Western astrology it’s fire, earth, air, and water.
B: Yeah, I was gonna say I guess they divided up earth, but it sounds like they just added metal and wood, that’s super interesting.
K: Yeah! You know what I thought of when I immediately saw this? I thought of Avatar: The Last Airbender.
B: Yeah! What else would you think of?
K: Honestly! I was thinking maybe they had combined both of them because they have metal bending in Avatar.
B: Oh yeah! I always thought it was super cool when I found out Libra’s an air sign, so then I’m like the last airbender like Aang, but then we all get killed so…
*laughter*
K: I too am an air sign but I’m always confused by my sign because it’s the water bearer, so why the heck is it an air sign?
B: Right? The twelve astrological signs are Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo, Aquarius, Gemini, Libra, Pisces, Cancer, Scorpio, Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius. And they all have a symbol that goes along with them too, I believe that corresponds to, what’s the word for it? The shapes in the stars.
K: Constellations!
B: Constellations! Thank you, I forgot that word.
K: I think it also corresponds to the Greek alphabet too.
B: Oh! That’s really cool. Capricorn’s symbol is the goat, Taurus is the bull, Virgo is the virgin or the woman depending on who you ask.
*laughter*
B: Right? Because what kind of symbol is the virgin? Aquarius is the water bearer, Gemini the twins, Libra the scales, Pisces the fish, Cancer is the crab, Scorpio the scorpion which makes sense.
*laughter*
K: The only one which makes sense!
B: Right? Aries the ram, Leo the lion, and Sagittarius is the archer.
K: Excellent, so what are the personality traits that are associated with each of the twelve zodiac signs?
B: Ok, so starting with Capricorn then, Capricorns are hard working, straightforward, loyal, stubborn, and uncontent until at the top (so no rest for the weary). Tauruses have good taste, they’re sensual, down to earth, pleasure seeking and stubborn, so that’s a pattern because both of them are stubborn. Virgos are typically successful, creative, they like to please others, clever, and they can lead others on, Aquarius are known for setting trends, being innovative, admired, distant, and eccentric, the Gemini are typically dynamic, have many talents, they like games, are two faced, hence their symbol being the twins, and mischievous. Libra, and this is funny because it’s what I am, it says they’re irresistible, I don’t know if I identify with that, adventurous, lavish, indecisive, which I am, and have a complicated love life. No comment. Pisces are alluring, free, sensual, sensitive, and can’t function alone. Cancers are sensitive, friend-oriented, practical, hates to argue, and forgives but doesn’t forget. Scorpio are self-reliant, powerful, wise, dominant, and secretive, Aries are brave, independent, assertive, impulsive, and hate to be restricted, Leos are creative, popular, faithful, dominating, and have too much pride, and Sagittarius are typically open-minded, achievers, loving, insensitive, and cold.
K: How much do you relate to your own sign?
B: It says adventurous and I do like to try new things, whether that could be traveling or just trying a new food. I like to try new things, like watching a new TV show, don’t knock it ‘til you try it. It says “lavish” which I don’t know if I identify with? I mean, I’m a college student so I don’t live a lavish lifestyle, but I do like certain comforts.
K: Right? You wrote that article about minimalism.
B: This is true, I guess there are certain things that I could live without but prefer not to. I collect t-shirts, I don’t need all of them but I like them. And then it says “complicated love life” which, define complicated.
K: We’re all complicated.
B: Yes, we’re all complicated people. Love is a complicated emotion… I say to avoid.
K: Swerve!
B: *laughter* Swerve!
K: As for my own, I mean I don’t think I’m much of a trend setter. I like cool things, and I just get what I like? I don’t feel like people necessarily copy me or anything which I feel is what a trendsetter is.
B: Maybe you set trends in the articles you write?
K: I hope! I guess, on like a lower level, I try to be really open and friendly with people but I’m not actually that close with them? Do you feel like there’s a sign you relate to more than your own?
B: That’s a good question. I’m a very sensitive person and I see that in the Cancer and Pisces symbols. And we’ll get into this later about how trustworthy astrology is, but I think that I can be overly sensitive? And then Cancer says “hates to argue” and I avoid conflict at all costs.
K: I feel you. I always hated the Cancer sign. I was like, why that one? Why that word?
B: Yeah, I guess it came from cancer cells looking like crabs so now we just think, ugh, negative connotation.
K: Right? Poor Cancers. Out of all the other ones I think I also relate to Capricorn a lot, except for, there’s one big one that I don’t, I don’t like to be straightforward. I’ll just dance around the issue to avoid conflict. But I like to think I’m hard working.
B: There ya go!
K: I’m definitely stubborn, there’s certain ways I like to do things and I’m just like, this is how we’re gonna do it. When I was a little I was a lot worse, I insisted on wearing headbands a certain way. I would wear it right at the tip of the hairline which is the worst! I hate all of the pictures of me from that time, I see why my parents were mad.
B: You were trying to set a trend! There ya go!
K: I am Aquarius. I mean, if we’re going to go on that trend of relating to different signs, let’s go to the thirteenth sign that’s messing everybody up.
B: Yes, oh my goodness.
K: So, I can’t pronounce this, it’s Ophiuchus. I thought this was an issue like two years ago, but the more I look at it, there’s a bunch of articles on it from 2016, 2017 because apparently NASA recently found evidence of the actual constellation! And I was like, why is NASA getting involved with Astrology?
B: Yeah, like this is literally Rocket Science! Because you have to think there are definitely constellations that don’t appear in the Astrological calendar, like Orion I don’t think.
K: I want a Big Dipper zodiac sign!
*laughter*
K: The news about the thirteenth zodiac sign came out and then everyone chose to ignore it. So many people are so attached to their signs that there was no way in the equation that it could be different. These signs go back to the BCE’s! There’s no changing them now. But theoretically, the Ophiuchan sign is from November 30 to December 18 so for me, I’m an Aquarius, that would make me a Capricorn which is interesting because that’s the other sign I thought that I related to a lot. And Bella, what does it make you?
B: It makes me a Virgo, which is interesting, because my mom and my brother are both Virgos, they’re born in September, and this is a side note, but my dad and my sister are both Capricorns, they’re both born in January. So I am the birthday black sheep of my family.
K: Maybe you should’ve been an Aquarius… The black sheep.
B: Literally!
K: So because a lot of people deny it so vehemently, you’re not going to find a lot of horoscope sites that use it, and you find so much about the personality of the other signs but not this one. One of the only places I was able to find anything about this sign was “Find Your Fate.com”. Very reliable, I know.
B: Super reliable.
K: On that site it says that Ophiuchus is the only sign that depicts a real man. Many people are envious of them as he or she progresses throughout life. They are a seeker of knowledge and have a flamboyant dressing style, wearing pleated dresses. Ophiuchus is between Scorpio and Sagittarius, they are extremely curious, open to change, passionate, and very jealous too. Also, other Ophiuchus personality traits include, explosive temper, good humor, secretive, egotistical, a thirst for knowledge, and sexually magnetic.
B: Wow, see I’m thinking of the Doctor Who character, Captain Jack Harkness. Everyone’s just attracted to him and he’s attracted to everyone.
K: Oh so he’s one of those.
B: He might be! He’s the thirteenth sign!
K: There’s a lot of traits on this one site, it’s really encompassing everyone! They are an interpreter of dreams, seeker of wisdom and knowledge, which we’ve said three times, will have a great family but will leave the home at an early age, attract good luck, and authority looks upon him or her well. All there is to say about poor old Ophiuchus is do you think anyone’s going to adopt him in the future?
B: I don’t know. It depends on the people born from November 30 to December 18. I don’t know.
K: For people that wanna be super different when they’re asked, “what’s your sign?” “Ophiuchus.”
B: “Oh what’s that?” “Oh you didn’t hear about NASA?” That would be a good conversation topic.
K: I think so too. I don’t think the guy I was talking to, the NASA contractor, was very big on this zodiac news. He wasn’t even big on the exo-planet news, he was like “there’s cooler things going on.”
*laughter*
K: There’s more to Zodiac signs than the months, there’s if they’re a Cardinal sign or a fixed sign, or a mutable sign, which changes very subtly. It basically means how willing you are to change, how open you are to aspects of your life to change. So for me it was saying I’m very fixed in my ideals, which is true, I’m very not willing to budge on those. Yours, Libra, is a cardinal sign, means that you’re open to change, that you want things in your life to change, fixed means that you want things to stay the same and for cardinal you start things.
B: Yeah, I could see that. Sure.
K: You’re the “OG”
Bella: That could be like, this is personal, but I’m very introverted so I like to do things by myself? And I’m open to new experiences. I don’t know if that’s impacted other people, but I could see it. Just do things for the hell of it.
K: Yeah! Zodiac signs also, for example, ours are both sun signs, which is what you show most of the time, but then you have moon signs. I think you know more about this Bella.
B: So like you said, sun signs are how you determine your zodiac personality and it has to do with the position of the sun at birth and determines your behavior and actions and then that corresponds to one of the four elements; Earth, Fire, Water, Air. Your moon sign is who you are when you’re not socializing emotions, mood – the “real” you, your subconscious. It has an impact on your love life, relationships, how you cope with stress and one website described it as the “Shadow” of your personality. Who you are at your core. Then there’s a third sign, your “Ascendant sign” or “Rising sign” and depends on the time/place you were born and talks about your temperament, the way that others see you. There’s this idea of your outward versus inward self.
K: And that’s interesting, I mean I know people give astrological signs a difficult time because it’s very general for the most part, but with all these different things, if you know them all, it becomes more and more specific to you. And there’s some value in using it as a self-exploration technique rather than something to guide your whole life and day to day existence. I actually just tried to calculate mine, and I don’t know the exact time I was born but it gives you an entire range. I know generally that I was born in the morning, like the early morning of February 1, 1997 which was a Saturday. So it’s saying that my moon sign is Scorpio which is intense, devoted, purposeful, and deserving, adores everything strong and powerful, adores hot water- I love tea! I’m obsessed with tea!
B: You just made a breakthrough!
K: I did! Because I’ve never looked at my moon sign before so this is excellent.
B: This is live self-discovery, making strides in the scientific community.
K: So this week, both Bella and I have been living by our horoscope from day to day in true Buzzfeed fashion and we’re going to compile our experiences into an article at the end of the week. We’re not going to go through our experiences right now because that’s a spoiler, but we will go into our weekly overview for this, and we’re using astrology.com.
B: On Monday I thought it was easier than today, and that was because on Monday it said you have a lot of small tasks, but that will leave you time to take care of bigger tasks, so I was like, “Ok, I have some emails and tedious worksheets to get through” but I think it made me surprisingly more productive where I was able to think “I gotta do this… make your bed now so you’ll have time to clean your kitchen” or whatever so that was interesting. So then for today, I don’t know if I’ve followed through as much, it’s only Tuesday, so we’ll see how it goes. Today it says, “Spiritual insights you received over the past few days could turn your thoughts to serving others.” The thing is, I haven’t interacted with that many people today, so we’ll see, there’s still a few hours left in the day so we shall see. And then my overall weekly description, and I loved the language they used here, “You’re a flower on Monday, and you’re coming into full bloom.”
K: So alluring! So irresistible!
B: “Just make sure someone doesn’t reach down and pluck you from the earth!”
K: Is someone going to kill you?
B: I really hope not! Maybe it’s referring to this essay I have due that I haven’t started yet.
K: More emotionally then.
B: Yeah, that would make sense.
K: Rest in peace, Bella.
B: It says, “On Tuesday, stick close to friends, flowers have to help each other out. Wednesday through Friday are great days” ok, I’m looking forward to it! “You’ll get a lot done and have fun doing it. Your head is bursting with ideas about things you want to do in the near future, keeping so much up and the air motivates you. Sunday is so unspeakably nice, that you have no reason to complain.” Funny thing is here, this weekend starts spring break. And I don’t want to be productive!
K: My weekly overview was, “You find something startlingly relevant to your life in the pages of a very old book” which I have yet to find.
B: I like how it’s “startlingly relevant”.
K: That’s why I’m thinking it must be for a class? In my visual cultures class we were doing stuff that’s like… we live in the Matrix, basically, by John Baudelaire. I feel like it’s relevant to the universe and everyone in general? “Monday and Tuesday are full of these mysterious messages from the past that seem to echo with past-tense urgency.” I haven’t felt quite that urgent about it, I kind of just had a discussion in class and just left it there? So maybe that’ll be it! “An elderly relative may call out of the blue, just to talk.” I mean, I called my grandpa over the weekend just to talk, but that was on Saturday so I don’t think that’s relevant to this week? I love how I’m really stretching to connect these. “Wednesday through Friday bring on a dramatic shift which brings on a sizzling affair. You have a talent for intense, out of nowhere, romances.” I am in a long-term six year relationship!
B: Wow, yeah you have three years on me!
K: What do you mean, intense out of nowhere romances?
B: Maybe it’s like an out of nowhere romantic gesture.
K: “Saturday and Sunday bring you to the much more ordinary world of family and home” which makes sense since spring break starts, “organizing a drawer full of pictures helps you organize your feelings” and that makes sense because I do actually have a huge scrapbook from like the past couple of years.”
B: That’s so cute!
K: I was planning on editing it over spring break but that’s a lot of work, maybe I’ll try, see where life takes me. The last thing we’ll talk about, and this is a very brief history, but there’s an American Federation of Astrologers, and they derive a lot of the history but there’s tons of sources all over about where certain things derive from. Western astrology as we know it goes back to cavemen times where they’d inscribe the positions of planets on bones and cave walls and eventually that became relevant to agriculture with the Babylonians who lived in southern Mesopotamia which was one of the first civilizations, and they formed the original twelve constellations which became zodiac signs. Eventually when this area was overtaken by the Greeks with Alexander the Great, he liked the system so they took it and just translated everything into Greek and added the symbols which is where the signs come from. Egypt found out theirs from Greece and they adjusted it with “decans” which are different constellations, and then a book of Egyptian astrology found its way to the coast of India where they started making their own signs. So astrology was very popular during that time and continued to be popular during the age of the Roman empire and it was even taught in universities as an official major. Astrology lost popularity with the crusades, but when those reached the middle east, they found all of their books on astrology and brought them back to Spain. Development of the printing press allowed these books to be translated and circulated but nonetheless, astrology once again fell out of popularity until William Lily started a revival movement in England in the 17th century. He published the first major book of astrology as an almanac, and from that point, astrology came to America and got REALLY popular around the time of the Spiritualist movement in the 19th century. It went away until counterculture, hippies made astrology huge again and the subject has remained the same since then, taking on its modern form. Astrology has kind of fallen out of favor again, it’s not really legitimate whatsoever, it’s a pseudo-science, and now people either love astrology or they’re disgusted by it, there’s really not much of an in-between. But I guess we’ll see where it goes in the future!
B: Definitely, I think if all else fails, it’s fun, I don’t think really any harm can come out of it. If there’s something guiding you and it helps you make good decisions, there’s really nothing wrong with it.
K: That answers my next question on your general opinion on zodiac signs, and I agree, there’s nothing wrong with it and as long as you don’t take it too, too seriously, like that soccer coach at your school.
B: Yeah! He wouldn’t let Leos on the team, which I don’t understand.
K: Ridiculous! Crazy! When you take it so seriously to such an extent that you’re barring other people from your life, that’s not okay.
B: Overall I think it’s cute, people get tattoos of them, it’s artsy, I think it’s fun.
K: Thank you so much for listening to our first zodiac sign podcast! We hope that you had fun learning about astrology with us.
Personality Piety 